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The Pagat website was founded in Its aim is to document the rules of traditional card and domino games for the benefit of players who would like to broaden their knowledge and try out unfamiliar games.
It takes its name from the Pagat, the lowest trump in the Central European game of Tarock. The site is edited by John McLeod john pagat.
Please send me an email if you find any errors or have any comments or ideas for improvements, or if you would like to contribute something.
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If both hands are playing the same dealer, there is a correlation between the results in the 2 hands. Of course I always call the river and lose anyway.
Has anyone come up with a good progression strategy for the ante and play bet. A positive or negatve progression could be interesting.
I bump it up with either a trips bet win, or a 4x win. The dealers all know Steves method of play. They miss you Steve.
I saw so many players with great cards waiting for the river. If I could only have played their cards. It seems significantly different not to mention more complicated than yours:.
Same thing people waiting with good cards until the flop. He hit a full house. Bottom line is he went broke on trip bets and I walked a winner.
Not so sure about the randomness of your UTH practice game. Within ten minutes of play, the dealer was dealt two straight flushes, a four of a kind and numerous full houses and straights.
I use the java. See you at the Aria! Good luck at Aria…i love that casino…long but easy layout. Your employer which casino is it?
I had never played this game before, saw the Wizard of Odds site, which linked to this one, and saw the strategy.
It was all very convincing about all the computer work etc. It was a continuous downwared spiral spread out over two different tables.
For the most part, no matter what I had, the dealer had a better hand. For instance, my best pre-flop hand was JJ. I flopped a J yippee!
Four clubs came and the dealer had 82 offsuit with the 2 clubs. I lost a couple of other sets to straights. If I had a big A, I would hit nothing and the dealer would pair up with their junk hand.
At least three times I had a small pair either pre-flop or on the flop that made two pair, and the turn and river was 55 or 77, etc.
Dealer wins with J high or whatever. The few decent hands I had were when I tripped up with a T2, or made a straight because I had a 5 in my hand or something.
This game is horrible, and the strategy is worthless. I saw where the casinos are making a killing on this game, and now I know why.
That does sound like a rough time. Were you able to get info from the other players on their hands? That helps shift the odds.
The math is right. If you look at my post on possible session outcomes , your probability of losing 80 antes in hands approx.
Integrate the area under the green curve from the left to the ante point. But the sample size is, um, quite a bit more than your 3 hour jaunt through a bad run of cards.
But it is very near break even, math-wise. At the end of the day it is still called gambling for a reason. Hung in and got it all back plus a few.
I still see players losing money on bets I would have made preflop. So if you get a lot of pushes and a few losses your not winning are you.
So, should I bet the Trips bet? Thanx in advance for any responses. Heading to Vegas next week and look forward to partaking this game!
Example — Community cards — ten, ten, ten, king, queen My hand — four, five. Should I play Trips? I wish I played the Trips on my last hand.
Love this site as I play UTH very often at my casino. I use to play online poker, but fell in love with UTH and just play that non stop.
I just have a few questions that need to be clarified. Also my new years resolution was to quit playing trips and I did that yesterday.
I won in about 1. Shipping every all in I had. Not sure if I am doing the percentages right or not. Any help would be appreciated. The returns are always stated in terms of an Ante, not the total amount of action bet.
Thanks so really for a sucker bet…. Had a ten dollar table heads up and had two different guys who had no clueabout the game come sit down, and play.
When two tables over is a 5 dollar minimum yet they find me. Three out of the four hands I had all ins, and because they jumped in dealer had trips 3 out of 4 times.
I could of had a bigger winning session if they didnt jump in, or if I stayed but we all know if you stay long they win eventually. I agree this site is awesome with wizard of ods by far this is the best game in the casino, especially with these resources.
Just to add on to your house edge by dealer screw ups. So I won a quick just off that hand alone! I see mis-pays quite often.
It depends on the dealer and the other players if any at the table if I correct the payout. Most of the time its due to the dealer either not reading their hand right missing a second pair or a straight or going down to six cards instead of stopping at five on a push.
Some dealers really have a problem reading two pair hands when the kicker on the board plays. Tonite, the players convinced the dealer they pushed with an inferior two pair hand.
Unbelievable, and very awkward. All the players hold their breath until the dealer mucks the hand. Stephen, one more follow up question, which way do you go about attacking the game?
Or do you just randomly play trips here and there? Hitting trips like 3 out of every 10 hands. Of course he told me that is where the money is at.
I am all about discount gambling. He finnally hit a big hand but was way down still. Saw a royal at seat six yesterday. Played Pala for an hour and a half on Sunday.
I saw a sick hand today Viejas. He pairs his 8 on the turn to make KKK The river is a low blank. He used some expletives for a while.
The local casinos are definitely better than the Strip casinos for comps and player rewards. Here in the greater San Diego region, we have a dozen or so casinos.
Maybe you can look into some off-the-strip casinos like the Silverton. They are pretty liberal. They started out asking us but now I ask them after I have played a few hours.
You really have to watch the dealers close. I saw too many pushes being raked the other day. Almost as if it was a new house strategy. I honestly played less then 20 hands.
I won 3 hands. Lost about every all in, and really I only won 2 hands but dealer paid out a a hand she had me beat. It was as bad as I ever ran in that game in a long time.
If you are getting annoyed with other players ridiculing your play at UTH, ask them if they have ever played heads up poker, or made it to the final table.
Do it with your best game face, and watch how they react. I was pleasantly surprised that, unlike the machines I described in my earlier post, the Blind bet was full-pay even money on a winning straight , making the game identical to a real table.
Unfortunately, the Trips paytable was also the worst possible one 7: Some very suspicious bad beats throughout the night.
The worst one actually happened twice…I bet 4x on K6 suited. Another player has pocket sixes the cards are all face up on the machine. The dealer…just happens to have the last remaining six with an Ace kicker.
What are the odds? But it was still very disheartening. The best possible Trips paytable 9: Dealer shuffles by hand after each round.
Just a good atmosphere in general: I will be playing there March th for March Madness. Hey guys, a heads up for those in San Diego.
I just got an mailer from Barona and inside it me said due to popular demand, Ultimate Texas Hold-em will be added to the chipless roster. Not sure when it will be, but I will for sure keep an eye out.
Now there really in a reason for me to go to Viejas, other than the buster Blackjack bet. I went to Pala for the first time this week.
I have never seen such conservative players and it was all encouraged by this smarmy little twit dealer. I had players sit down next to me and ask me to give guidance on what hands to be betting.
The entire table would roll their eyes at me and basically call me crazy for playing hands pre-flop like K-J os, A-J, and even A-K. I kept telling him he was wrong, but unfortunately every damned time I would bet with a nice pre-flop betting hand I would get cracked.
Seriously, some of these dealers need to shut their mouths sometimes. There are several traits I hate in a dealer, but the worst is fishing for tips.
Otherwise known as slow-rolling which would get you a punch in the mouth at some cash games. And an example of a trait that is excellent for a dealer.
At Pala, there was one dealer who was very sloppy pulling the board cards, players cards and her own cards out. Several times I could see the first card of the board as well as at least one of her cards which is kind of important since at Pala all cards are out before you even look at your hand and make a decision.
What do they think? That people reads hands as poorly as they do? Its my decision to expose my cards to the table, not the dealers.
The tables above say you can call a paired scare board with nut kicker, but on an unpaired scare board, you need at least bottom pair with 4th nut kicker.
I just finished training as a dealer, and will do my best to not do any of these oddities. Some of the dealers are starting to recognize that I last a lot longer on a buy in than most even if I do lose it.
Lately some have even told newbies to ask me to help them. I shrug my shoulders whether I win or lose. Just wondering if anyone knows the odds for these three hands with all 5 cards being shown plus your two cards….
The odds to make these not be put on the board. Royal Flush Straight Flush Quads. You were 2nd seat and I was playing 1st seat two asian guys.
We were talking about playing x4 preflop strategy from this blog and you told us you were Stephen and is the blogger.
Love this game, but usually lose until last September after reading up on the strategy. The dealer had straight flush with 9h.
Of course I remember you guys! Keep teaching them how to play up there in Seattle! Are we taking nominations for the most annoying UTH dealer?
If so, mine is an Asian male at Encore who opens the hands of every player once they play or fold, and offers commentary—usually wrong, by the way—about their decisions.
I played about 10 minutes before giving up and walking over to Wynn. They dummy up and hand out the cards. My vote would go to a dealer at the Showboat in AC who openly scolded me for following the strategy.
I want you to win, my friend! Dummy up and deal needs to be the standard for all dealers. Chatty dealers may get new idiots to play the game, but they drive away the players who would play for much longer.
Casinos need to tell their dealers to shut the hell up unless the player is actively speaking to them. As you mentioned above, many of the dealers feel they know they game better than the players because they deal it, when in fact they only know how to pay it and scoop it.
But you could see their interest was piqued as I ground out more wins than loses with those. People were slow to catch on to sharing info, but I found a few and, as usual, it helped avoid disasters like avoiding 4x pocket QQ because the players to either side of me each had a Q—that got a double-take from the dealer!
You are correct in hindsight. It is a strong enough hand that it would be worth the bet without the chance to improve.
But I was in one of those slow patches and feeling a little over conservative. As always used the optimal betting method nearly all of the time and was rocking it when I did.
I lost count, but at one point, I had won 18 of 23 hands where I bet max pre-flop. Did run into one annoying situation there though.
The floor manager started taking notice of my success and became almost harassing. He decided he was going to stand directly over my shoulder since I was in the first spot and never take his eyes off of me.
When he took breaks, he would whisper to the other floor managers and point at me…and sure enough they did the same thing.
It was obnoxious, harassing and unwarranted. Just to piss them off I try to grab my entire stack and head to the cashier without coloring up.
You should really go ten miles down the road to Harrahs. Almost all the dealers and table game supervisors are very friendly.
They WANT you to win. If your not winning they are not getting tokes. Seriously, you definitely need to check out Pauma. They actually have reasonable salads back there.
The 2-for-1 prime rib is a great deal, and the mini-pizzas are really good. And Tom, you can drink there too. Usually, they have a few dealers standing dead in the mornings.
Having a fantastic last week and a half. I have never seen such pissed off floor managers in my life. Eat it you two-faced dregs.
I found your website through the Wizard of Odds. It paid off as a Royal. I have a screen shot I could send you.
Since purple is my largest chip, the payoff went off the screen. Stephen, I may be wrong, but I think he was pointing out a mistake in your game, not bragging about his score.
He said he got a K-9 straight flush and it paid like a Royal. Thanks, easy to check out. The Blind paytable also pays out 50 correctly. If you still have the screenshot, please send it to me.
I played UTH for the first time last week at a casino and I must say I fell in love with this game very quickly.
I practiced with your trainer app couple of times excellent app by the way! Did you program your app to be an one on one game me vs dealer or did you consider there are other players in the game as well?
Thanks for the feedback. Of course that only happens some of the time, and its up to you to find out if you want an edge. For example, my post on practical collusion for UTH shows if you have a marginal 4x raising hand like K5o, you should definitely check at least your left and right neighbors if they have either a King or a 5.
On the other hand, if they have either a King or a 5, you should check, since a 4x raise is at a So, you should learn about using table information, and embrace the additional players at the table.
The effect is the same as if the dealer had cut the deck differently. These people are at Eldorado Casino, Reno. Yes, UTH has to be the table game with the highest percentage of dealer mistakes.
Think I found another bug…was dealt 2s2d and checked. Thanks, found the bug. I fixed it, and another one that bothered me needed to play the board on something like AKQ I taught my wife the basic strategy to the game as well as the simple pre-flop betting strategy and we played a total of 5 sessions each.
Yup, my wife hit the heart royal on the turn after playing less than 5 hours. Needless to say, we were very happy.
Saw only one quad the whole time, but a fair amount of flushes, full houses and straights. I would also say that there was not a single player on the boat besides my wife and I who won nor played proper strategy.
Most players would only play suited face cards or pocket pairs around 8 or higher. No one played Ace-anything besides us. Thanks Stephen, for your lessons.
I was shocked and excited, but at the same time nervous because I knew that it was very likely that i would play it while waiting for my seat and it would be very likely that i could lose a good chunk of my bankroll for the day.
I noticed another difference between the game at the Lake compared to the other casinos I have been to…they let you play 2 hands at the Lake.
The second hand has to be played blind, so you have to go all-in 3x or 4x and you do not get to see the hole cards for the second hand.
Just got back from Vegas and after 4 days was up over 15K. I was truly amazed that almost no one played near as aggressive as I did. So I finally dealt the game at Pala.
Oddly enough, all of the dealers at Pauma understand the 4x preflop raising strategy. At Viejas, about half of the dealers understand 4x raising, and the rest are ambivalent.
But then again, from what I remember, some of those dealers seem extremely set in their views. Probably because its vegas, I did get free rooms and they gave me another night free.
I love the MGM…just wish my luck was better. When a hand came up where I had trips I would take away what I would have won from that stack.
Players questioned me on what I was doing and I explained. Went to Mississippi stud for a sesision and came back. Several players had stopped betting trips.
Second session was short. Dealer dealt himself two straights in a row a boat and trips. After that I caught rags four hands in a row.
Back to Mississippi Stud. Thank you for creating your practice simulator this is exactly what I have been looking for! I have been playing basic strategy for this game for about 3 years now.
I did notice that your flash app does not have the extra player option to use collusion play in your simulation.
Would you be able to add this feature to the flash app or keep your java app available? Also I wloud love to be able to download the java app for this to be able to practice when I am off line.
Thanks again for providing this simulation it is a great help! Is this correct, or just a bug? Yeah, double gutshot is the same as open-ended 8 outs , and both your hole cards are greater than 8.
When playing the player must bet the ante and the blind bet. This is an automatic disadvantage bet the player must make in order to play the game.
Therefore and strategy for this game is used to determine when to bet the play bet and only the play bet. I stress occurring hands because not each hand has the same odds of being dealt.
Basically this is an average percentage for all possible situations and hand outcomes. I did not create this chart I found a few on various websites and compared them to validate.
As we get closer to a negative percentage the Cumulative Occurance of Optimal x4 bet hands reaches All the game rules are taken into account in the analysis using a customized program.
All the effects of the Blind and Ante bet are taken into account in the 4x Play bet decision. However, the hands you point out are very strong, and you should 4x raise them at a full table when not copied.
Personally, since most tables in Vegas pay the last or a pay structure 3. As Badbucks says, check the return on the Trips paytable. In San Diego, we mostly have the 1.
In Las Vegas, the most common paytable is 3. At my local Barona Casino, they offer the best 0. Is there a math here?
If someone else can dispute this, please feel free to do so. Thanks for the math. Has anyone played at the Cosmopolitan? Trips or no trips, etc.
I think they have 2 tables there. U can expect huge swings in your bankroll by playing by the book. I normally buy in for 50 times my normal ante bet amount, but lately, I am beginning to feel that is not enough to whether the swings.
If u play the trips bet, just be aware that if u r running bad, u will easily bleed through your whole buy in from losing the trips bets.
If u r running good then just run with it. As far as the cosmos goes, the dealers r pleasant and the atmosphere is like a huge martini bar…lots of young people and lots of energy in the casino.
They are really stingy. I do not play trips. Totally agree regarding CET comps. I was able to stay for free during CES earlier this year and i have already booked a room for free during CES for No blackouts, weekends ok, and no resort fees.
I think CET and treasure island comps are a couple of the easiest to get from the strip, although mLife seems to be doling out frequent room comps too.
They tend to comp better than most in the area as far as I can tell. Just wish they would put inanother Mississippi Stud table.
Tom, I totally agree. Pechanga has treated me fairly well too when I ask for comps. Pala is the absolute worst of the three. I have asked for a buffet twice after playing for 3 to 4 hours, making 10 and 15 dollar ante bets, and both times I was rejected.
I quit asking for food comps at pala…I just go in, play my game and leave. Unbelievable and maddening day at Pala yesterday. I had been playing for a long time in the first spot and had been going through a rough stretch.
Table was full except for seat two. I thought about moving several times, but I stayed put. A woman comes up and takes seat two.
Table pauses for a half an hour while they get her paid. I go back in seat three and play for an hour. Table is full except for seat one.
Dealer decides to rearrange the chips, alowing a woman to come up and take spot one. RK, I defenitely feel your pain from that session, except for missing out on the royal flush twice.
I have yet to see a royal flush except for when the dealer dealt one to herself. Lately, I have been sitting in the wrong seat at the wrong time consistently.
One of my recent sessions, at a full table, I was the only player to not have a flush or full house when there is 4 to a flush, 2 pair, or trips on the board.
This happened about 5 times during the session. I was running so bad, I reduced my betting from 25 ante to 5 ante and moved seats…no change in luck.
Sometimes, the best thing for us is to just pick up our chips and take a break. The Pala dealers except for vgMega drive me nuts, and so do the players.
They leave after a few bad beats, then they come back if they see or hear someone winning. On the other hand, it has some charm as a small, local casino.
The dealers at Pala are not great. He had his mind made up that k-3 was better than a-k. Surprisingly he was losing and losing.
Oh boy, Your right about Charlie and John. They mean well, but they can come off in a bad way. I wish I could deal that game myself a lot more, but they are set in their ways on who deals what, especially in the Carnival pit.
And your right about comps…. BTW, if you guys have any questions about procedure, ask away! It was a promotion they were running.
I asked for a comp a while back and they said they stopped it because players were taking advantage of it. It seems some supervisors were comping for Fiores too much.
Actually got a call from the casino director and had a nice chat. They may brinhg it back with some restrictions. Stephen,If you knew one of the flop cards,would this change basic strategy in Ultimate texas holdem?
Obviously if you knew you would pair up you probably would bet,but say you have k5 or q8 and now since you only have four unknown cards to match yours would you still bet 4x on these hands or other close plays like jt.
Went to Pala today…i know…why would i do that? You really should drive past Pala, and go to Casino Pauma. There are self-proclaimed BJ and Craps professional gamblers.
Could one turn pro playing UTH? I am looking for a career after retirement. This may be it. If trips came up I removed that amount from the stack and so on.
The suits hung around the table a lot…i mean a lot! I will definitely go back there again! Hi I am confused by the statement and example on the flop.
The flop is 3d9dKd. You have no flush or straight draw, so you check. Went back to Spa Resort yesterday and was stuck for 2 buy-ins for most of the session.
I was playing with another player at the table at first and then mostly one on one. The only stipulation with playing two hands is that you have to play one of them blind.
Usual raised eyebrows and smirks at my playing style. A few possible converts. A player was in seat 5 and as I started to sit in seat 4 he moved over.
First hand I hit a flush. He got ticked and said I was stupid for not playing trips. He lost about 2K and kept dropping his trip bet.
I made 3 trip bets for the session dealer change card change etc and won 2 of 3. I heard him telling the other players how I count as I left See my post above for explanation.
Holy California card craps! I have done the exact same chip tracking you do, but stopped after a few sessions because as i got deeper into my session, the chips migrated into the tracking stack and i had to keep using those chips and it got confusing real fast.
I will probably head to Rincon next friday to play some, although i have not had much luck there recently. I will probably check out Pauma too, on my way home.
He left shortly after I sat down. Went to Vegas for the weekend. Very difficult to find UTH tables. There were a lot of WSOP Hold-Em tables, watched for a few minutes and it appeared to be even money payouts on everything saw a full house and a flush while I was watching.
Played one short UTH session at Paris. Not enough light above the tables. One dealer held the cards near his chin hand dealt game and flipped the cards across the table.
Twice players had to pick them up off the floor. Had three hands in a 20 minute period he started to rake my chips and I had put my hand down on top of his to get his attention to point out that my flush beat his two pair.
Very bright table games area, lots of loud music for the go-go dancer in the pit. My wife who usually plays blackjack sat in for half an hour and caught quads.
They were doing okay to start with but the cards turned ugly and one looked to be near tears after a very long losing streak from where I was at 3-card looked like one lost 8 hands in a row, won 2, then lost 6 more.
Paris has UTH now? PH, Cosmo, Mirage, and Wynn were my favorites as far as atmosphere and energy at the tables and casino. Ballys had one UTH table.
Flamingo best for mispaying people…though in my last session they narrowed down the amount of dealers running hte game so it was better.
Was in Vegas this past week. Ann low key and pleasant to play at. Freaking people out with 4x bets on any ace or small pairs, let alone the K, Q and J bets.
Had more losing sessions than winning, unfortunately. A couple of starts with 6, 7, 8 losing hands in a row. But ended the trip on an up note, playing my last hands before I had to leave for the airport, I hit back to back full houses playing trips to double my money on the last session.
Just got back from Lake Tahoe and Harrahs has it for 5 min. Had 3 sessions, all winning. Its amazing how people get killed playing the bonus.
Of probably 20 or so people I played with, I was the only one using this strategy. One lady hit quads playing the 10 on the bonus every hand and was broke in an hour.
Thanks for the site as I practiced for a week and it paid off in Tahoe. People going broke because of trip bets.
Sat down for a session just before it was time to meet my wife. Does anyone have a time limit or goal to win in each session?
I started playing 3 months ago and developed a hit and run strategy. It seems like when I played for hours in a row I would only get up about 12xx avg bet of course not playing trips and using basic strategy.
Now I just try to hit and run being hapy with winning x avg bet and moving on to play it at the next casino or just taking a short break and coming back.
Also, buy in amounts, based on avg bet? I usually am buying in for 20x avg bet, might be a little light since i have gone through it a few times.
Whats your worst losing streak? I book wins constantly and would like to move up. WHat is your bankroll amount per bet? By bets I assume you are referring to the size of your ante bet.
I allot ante bets per session. Right now I play 25 ante and 15 on the trips, so for a session, I cap my losses at …believe me, the swings will take you to the cap if you run into a cold streak.
This is a casino game, so walking out even or slightly down is a good thing. This does not happen often though, it is usually up or down a sizeable amount.
Leaving up one ante per hour usually means you had a rough session and just happened to get some back plus a little.
So, shoot for one ante per hour and your bothers wins will be even more exciting and your losing sessions will be expected, since it is a casino game.
One thing I never do, no matter how much I am winning…I never leave when I am hot. Why do gamblers leave on a hot streak but keep playing and keep playing bigger when they are on a cold streak?
Bankroll management like I use will not make u a winner…it will only let you play the game longer. I am net down since playing this game. I like many others started playing this game and was winning almost effortlessly and thought this game was a money tree…WRONG!
This game can bite you in the ass hard and to play perfect strategy, I believe you need a deep bankroll for the limit you play.
Adjust your bet size to your bankroll. I have lost within the first 10 minutes of playing on several occassions.
The swings in this game can be brutal and that is part of what makes the game exciting. Play this game for fun, not for expectations of making money.
If you want to make money consistently, play real poker. I used to only play real poker, but now I play this all the time because it is more fun, plus the interaction with the players is more exciting…for the most part.
If there are gramatical errors, well, so I suck at grammer…lol. One ante bet per hour? That can not be correct? If its 4 hands then I walk…. Under Promise Over Deliver.
If i make one ante per hour great, i walk away a winner. If i make beyond it, then I feel i had a good session. I think everyones goals and expectations of win rates will vary greatly.
Given that it is a casino game, excluding any comps, you are expected to lose money on this game, so breaking even is good. This is an addictive game.
Do you think that it might be possible to even beat the casino and gain a small edge if you are allowed to look at the other players cards all the time?
This way you have a lot of info about your outs, especially on the river…. I do not believe seeing the other players cards all the time is enough to beat the house.
The problem is that you are always wagering more than you win, excluding bonus hands. I believe this game will always be a house-edge game, excluding player comps, unless you can see the dealer cards.
Some casinos, like Barona, deal the game with all players cards face up, so it must still be house-edge for them to do that. I have been wondering if team play may add some value to this game though.
I have only done this for 3 sessions there, and so far it seems to work ok, except one time i got quads on my second hand which happened to be my first spot hand , which would have been my bigger bet hand if i did not play two hands.
The Spa lets you play the second hand on either side of your actual hand, whereas most other casinos make you play the actual second hand blind.
I have played two hands several times at Barona without having to play either one blind. KNowing other cards is very valuable.
It may not always be useful per each hand but at times it will help you save a bet or gain a bet. IF you are playing with 5 other people and nobody has a duece and you have two of them, even though the book says not to bet 4x, you now should since you know 10 cards so the odds of hitting your set are much higher….
Anyone know of website that has a list that has UTH? I am curious if any casinos in WV have it? As far as I know on the east coast….
ANyone know anywhere else that has it? Guys, I think you can benefit from seeing other players cards. Especially on the river. You can count the outs that the dealer has.
We just have to make more calculations…. Start with , if you win, then , if you win then Then back to regardless of the result of the hand to protect profits.
I was betting it but seldom because I was trying to save chips and was already dejected by my cash game result.
Thank you guys for the discussion. I try to tip at the end of a session. The dealer knows if your ahead or behind. Percentage is up to you.
If you are a regular you will see that a toke when you leave even if your losing reflects in the dealers attitude toward you next visit.
I am trying to find out what it takes to get a free room playing UTH. Is anyone getting comped rooms at the Wynn, or Caesars.? Feels like M Life has turned very stingy.
I have never played at Venetian. I looked for it last January but could not find it there. Vegas still might be feeling the crunch, so comps may still be relatively easy to come by.
I actually find M-life to be comp friendly. I have been getting offers year round from M-life and have only had time to take advantage of it once this year at the Mirage.
I had a comp room booked for Bellagio earlier this month, but had to cancel. Wynn seems to be pretty comp-friendly lately as well.
I only played there for maybe an hour tops, while waiting for the Le Reve show, during my last trip. They used to, but too many players are actually playing that bet at a positive EV.
I went next door to the Wynn and got the same story. Having a real bad run of luck. Wife does the same plus slots. Never hear a jackpot on slots announced any more.
They have the machines so tight they are embarrassed to announce the few winners. This is the closest casino to me that has my games so I am stuck.
Marketing should be giving MORE comps to keep people coming. At least the staff there are friendly. Still mostly at Pechanga. Saturday I got trips jacks on 3 card then community quads kings then a solo set of quads deuces on UTH.
Wife wanted to hit Pala so was there for a bit on Sunday. Really slows down the play as the dealers try to hit the sweet spot with the dollar chips to light up the red dots.
Here is something to think about.. I played 15, hands of UTH on the practice game on this site. I never hit a royal flush.
I grouped the results by hands to approximate 9 to 10 hours of play. If There was a winning royal flush, the loss rate would have been -.
There were almost two losing sessions to every win session. I do not know how many hours I played this past trip, but it must have been somewhere around hours in 4days, spread over a dozen or so sessions at several different casinos.
I mostly played quarter ante, sometimes 50, if the cards were running good and the dealer was hitting air. I recovered all the losses on the second day without any huge hands, just good run of cards.
Although, I do play 15 on the trips most of the time, unless I am just running really cold. Been dealing the game a bit more now at Pala.
Gave out some decent hands and tried giving advice on the preflop bets. Got a few converts on betting preflop with ace and mid pairs.
Anyone going to be in vegas in January? It seems Venetian is rating the game like MGM…2x ante, plus trips. I played at Cosmopolitan this week and the pit told me they rate UTH as 3x ante, plus trips bet, which seems like a much favorable rating.
I do not know what is needed to get comp rooms, but I stayed free through a casino marketing offer. Vegas is hurting, so I feel the casino marketing comps have been getting better for little players like me.
I will be staying at Wynn and Harrahs next week for SHOT show and will ask the pit what kind of play is needed for room comps.
I can confidently say, I played very little in some of these casinos, prior to getting these free room offers.
Maybe Vegas does the same thing with free room offers. Mike, have you ever played blackjack. I also play hour sessions and go through 3K to 6K session swings, and I am starting to think that BJ may offer a better return and comps.
Curious what you and others think. I only play BJ occasionally, usually when I am with friends and we all want to play something together. Oddly, I get scared playing BJ with quarters, but have no problem playing quarters and black chips on the play bet in UTH.
Personally, I think the comps should be better for UTH, and I think for players who play by the strategy get short-changed with the rating system because we raise so often pre-flop, yet that 4 times bet is almost meaningless in the rating system.
Cosmo will at least rate at 3x the ante, plus the trips, so you will always at least get rated as if you called the river on every hand, but other casinos as you have found out only count the initial chips wagered to see the hole cards.
On a side note, at what level should a player consider asking for a host? I had cleaned it out prior to playing by eating at Noodles, in Bellagio, prior to that session, so I assume I was at zero express comp dollars at the time I started at MGM.
Was anyone here playing at MGM Grand last night? I was at a table with some serious players…strategy and wagering. I played at Bellagio last month and also tracked my express points.
That has been working fine. It was the end table…very hard to see because it does not have the tall signage.
Comps are still pretty good IF they know you. Playing mostly Mississipi and UTH. UTH is a slow winning process but I do pretty good by betting the 4 times when i should.
I have been playing the trip bet lately and it seems like it might be a wash. Lost out on some good pays when the cards were coming.
I quit BJ as I never know when to up my bet.
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